Why fade?

[dk11111]

As I read this forum and other places, it seems that natural ball flight of a hitter is usually fade. But why is it?

I thought a swing path is down, out and forward at the impact point regardless of whether a golfer is a hitter or swinger. If this assumption is wrong, then what I am going to say below is a moot point.

I am assuming a initial ball flight depends on a club face. If a swing path is in to out and a club face is closed relative to the swing path, I guess a ball flight is either push-draw or pull-hook (or push-hook?) depending on how closed the club face is. If a club face is open relative to a swing path, I guess a ball flight is push-fade (or push-slice).

So if a hitter employ in-to-out with a angled hinge, does it mean a hitter usually hit push-fade?

Is a hitter's swing path slight out to in?

Thanks,
DK

[O.B.Left]

As I read this forum and other places, it seems that natural ball flight of a hitter is usually fade. But why is it?

I thought a swing path is down, out and forward at the impact point regardless of whether a golfer is a hitter or swinger. If this assumption is wrong, then what I am going to say below is a moot point.

I am assuming a initial ball flight depends on a club face. If a swing path is in to out and a club face is closed relative to the swing path, I guess a ball flight is either push-draw or pull-hook (or push-hook?) depending on how closed the club face is. If a club face is open relative to a swing path, I guess a ball flight is push-fade (or push-slice).

So if a hitter employ in-to-out with a angled hinge, does it mean a hitter usually hit push-fade?

Is a hitter's swing path slight out to in?

Thanks,
DK

Wow DK great question, thanks for asking it Im looking forward to seeing some information on this.

Here is my best guess:

-Push fade tendency due to Angled Hinging which itself is a product of the physics of Hitting.

-the down, out and forward of three dimensional impact for straight away ball flight is not "cross line". Assuming the point of contact between clubface and ball remains intact, as if welded together, the ball will leave at right angles to the face angle at separation and without enough side spin to curve the ball. Making Angular force (such as in golf) similar or equal to Linear Force (such as pool cue and ball). I think.

Welcome to LBG, DK11111. Thats a heck of a first question. Chapter 2 is a tough read but worth the effort.

[dk11111]

I found this wonderful forum a few weeks ago, and since then I am quite absorbed in reading posts and slowly digesting them. I found OB's (and many others') posts very informative, and I thank for them very much.

Back to the topic:

-Push fade tendency due to Angled Hinging which itself is a product of the physics of Hitting.

So is push-fade, not fade, natural ball flight of a hitter? I assume that fade, for a right-handed golfer, is ball flight in which a ball start on a target line and deviate to the right just a little bit.

-the down, out and forward of three dimensional impact for straight away ball flight is not "cross line".

I think I am understanding what you say here. So is out in "down, out and forward" illusion created by the fact that our eyes are above the plane? If our eyes were positioned somewhere on the (3D) plane (for example, from the highest point of the swing plane(or radius)), movement of a club head we see should be down and forward (no OUT). On the 2 dimensional plane line, a club head is moving straight; am I correct? Is this why you said "not 'cross line'"?

Thanks

(My head is spinning. I guess I need to buy the yellow book soon since TGM becomes interesting to me more and more.)

[drewitgolf]

With Horizontal (Closing Only) and Vertical (Layback only) Hinging, both Club Face and Club Head rotate around the same Hinge Pin (both are Centerd Motions). Because Angled Hinging produces both Layback and Closing at the same time, it is an uncentered motion and has a built in Slice tendency. Simply close the Clubface at Impact Fix (more for longer clubs, less for shorter clubs) to avoid this and you will be a happy camper.

[KevCarter]

With Horizontal (Closing Only) and Vertical (Layback only) Hinging, both Club Face and Club Head rotate around the same Hinge Pin (both are Centerd Motions). Because Angled Hinging produces both Layback and Closing at the same time, it is an uncentered motion and has a built in Slice tendency. Simply close the Clubface at Impact Fix (more for longer clubs, less for shorter clubs) to avoid this and you will be a happy camper.

Drew,

Very nice post, it turned on a light bulb for me...

Since becoming a hitter, I still set up with my clubface a little open to my target line and hit push draws, my preferred ball flight. I suspect that even though I am hitting, I'm using 4 barrels and employing a Horizontal Hinge, hence, the fade is not my stock ball flight.

Make sense?

Thanks,
Kevin

[drewitgolf]

Drew,

Very nice post, it turned on a light bulb for me...

Since becoming a hitter, I still set up with my clubface a little open to my target line and hit push draws, my preferred ball flight. I suspect that even though I am hitting, I'm using 4 barrels and employing a Horizontal Hinge, hence, the fade is not my stock ball flight.

Make sense?

Thanks,
Kevin

Kevin,

It is a matter of choice, but the Hitters natural motion will produce Angled Hinging. You, my friend, are over-ridng this natural action and indeed have to when you set up with an open clubface. Otherwise, Fore Right!

[O.B.Left]

With Horizontal (Closing Only) and Vertical (Layback only) Hinging, both Club Face and Club Head rotate around the same Hinge Pin (both are Centerd Motions). Because Angled Hinging produces both Layback and Closing at the same time, it is an uncentered motion and has a built in Slice tendency. Simply close the Clubface at Impact Fix (more for longer clubs, less for shorter clubs) to avoid this and you will be a happy camper.

Thanks Drew

This "uncentered" business has been a foggy notion for me. Still is. Would you mind elaborating or pointing me to the appropriate section in the book. 2-J-3 mentions it in regard to the Angle of Approach I believe.

Regards
Ob

[drewitgolf]

Thanks Drew

This "uncentered" business has been a foggy notion for me. Still is. Would you mind elaborating or pointing me to the appropriate section in the book. 2-J-3 mentions it in regard to the Angle of Approach I believe.

Regards
Ob

O.B.

My books is at the pro shop. Try 2-J-1. I think it is there.

[O.B.Left]

I think I am understanding what you say here. So is out in "down, out and forward" illusion created by the fact that our eyes are above the plane? If our eyes were positioned somewhere on the (3D) plane (for example, from the highest point of the swing plane(or radius)), movement of a club head we see should be down and forward (no OUT). On the 2 dimensional plane line, a club head is moving straight; am I correct? Is this why you said "not 'cross line'"?

Thanks

(My head is spinning. I guess I need to buy the yellow book soon since TGM becomes interesting to me more and more.)

DK your geometry is good, I can tell. Dont worry about your noggin, this is the place for "head spinning" , my brain is normally mushed like one of those poor NASA guys riding the rocket centrifuge.

The "Out" of Three Dimensional Impact is very real as is the "Down" and the "Forward" of course. By virtue of the fact that we are traveling an Inclined Plane. Picture it from a down the line point of view, your clubhead could not be on an Inclined Plane and travel Down without traveling Out (towards the plane line) at the same time. A truly horizontal plane would have forward and out, no down. A vertical plane would have no out. So in regard to the Out, just go Down all the way and the Out will take care of itself given your plane of motion.

[KevCarter]

Kevin,

It is a matter of choice, but the Hitters natural motion will produce Angled Hinging. You, my friend, are over-ridng this natural action and indeed have to when you set up with an open clubface. Otherwise, Fore Right!

Thanks Drew,

One compensation followed by another to make up for it. Not good... Back to the drawing board!

Kevin