Zach is:
Throwing the Clubface at the Ball. Angled Hinge Swinger
Very little Release Delay
Almost “0” #3 Accumulator.
Grip is not bad.
Boo is:
Excellent Horizontal Hinge
A lot of delay
A lot of #3 Accumulator
His grip is awful.
These guys change their swing components more times than a woman in a Shoe Store.
They have different Release Points, Release Types, Release Motions and Trigger Types and Trigger Procedures.
But back to the Movie.
One "question" in the original discussion was "Can a person create a Smaller Pulley?" The answer is no. The Endless Belt Effect is not a Tool and not a Component. However it is a reality that should be considered during Component Selection.
Homer doesn't explain the method of creating Varying Pulley Sizes, rather he suggests that one Compensate the Endless Belt Effect and Hand Speed by Varying the amount of #3 Accumulator Travel.
The Rant
It's very difficult to analyze a Golf Swing. Videos and Pictures are better applied to discussions on component variations. Conclusions, however, are based on what Components our eyes can capture and the causative relationships our brains deduct from these. Why does one Golfer use One Component and Another Golfer use Another? Trial and error. Maybe they Don't know why. Most know very little about components and component variations.
Golf Analysts get paid to be educational entertainers, not instructors. They aren't analyzing, they are anesthetizing the viewer. Grab onto current trends and golf jargon and Rhetorically thread them together as plausible, so that the viewer will keep eating Popcorn.
I should leave carnival like analysis to them. We, at LBG Central, know that there is more to the Golf Swing than the "Stack and Tilt".
Zach is:
Throwing the Clubface at the Ball. Angled Hinge Swinger
Very little Release Delay
Almost “0” #3 Accumulator.
Grip is not bad.
Boo is:
Excellent Horizontal Hinge
A lot of delay
A lot of #3 Accumulator
His grip is awful.
These guys change their swing components more times than a woman in a Shoe Store.
They have different Release Points, Release Types, Release Motions and Trigger Types and Trigger Procedures.
But back to the Movie.
One "question" in the original discussion was "Can a person create a Smaller Pulley?" The answer is no. The Endless Belt Effect is not a Tool and not a Component. However it is a reality that should be considered during Component Selection.
Homer doesn't explain the method of creating Varying Pulley Sizes, rather he suggests that one Compensate the Endless Belt Effect and Hand Speed by Varying the amount of #3 Accumulator Travel.
The Rant
It's very difficult to analyze a Golf Swing. Videos and Pictures are better applied to discussions on component variations. Conclusions, however, are based on what Components our eyes can capture and the causative relationships our brains deduct from these. Why does one Golfer use One Component and Another Golfer use Another? Trial and error. Maybe they Don't know why. Most know very little about components and component variations.
Golf Analysts get paid to be educational entertainers, not instructors. They aren't analyzing, they are anesthetizing the viewer. Grab onto current trends and golf jargon and Rhetorically thread them together as plausible, so that the viewer will keep eating Popcorn.
I should leave carnival like analysis to them. We, at LBG Central, know that there is more to the Golf Swing than the "Stack and Tilt".
D . . . Are you watching the videos??? Boo is no way no how Horizontal Hinging??? It's closer to VERTICAL hinging than horizontal. That clubface is not pointing along the plane line . . . it's close to pointing at the sky. He does SWIVEL unlike Zach. Watch the close up of the club. The toe is very quiet.
And the grip awful? So what. Homer said you could do anything you want. You ask Boo to change his grip and he goes back to the state fair to get knocked out by another orangutan.
Forget about accumlators and analysis and all that junk for a second . . .
Step out of your yellow box. We CAN do the analysis on these swings.
There are reasons why these swings work. Take Sergio, Zach and Boo as examples. Each one has a turned left hand. Two have major amounts of shaft lean. Two have lots of axis tilt and are more slidy than rotational. One has a major shift and turns HARD. One stays on the turned shoulder plane. The other two use the elbow plane. All these components blend. One thing they have in common is the DON'T horizontal hinge.
WATCH HOW THE CLUB MOVES IN SPACE COMPARITIVELY . . . The difference is HUGE!!!! One is night the other is day . . . one is black the other is white. You are seeing extreme ends of the spectrum here. Steep vs. Flat. High vs. Low. Circle vs. Line.
I mean I know I'm marginally retarded and all that . . . these golf swings are on the extreme edges and there's a lot to be learned here. You have to step out of the chapter and verse. It's in the book but it requires a bit of reading between the lines.
The way these clubs move are as different as night and day. One clubhead skims the ground the other clubhead falls out of the sky.
You can make it happen with your clubhead close to the ground as it approaches the ball . . . but my choice is to have it falling out of the sky down on top of the ball. I want my whole primary lever assembly and my whole body brought to bear right down on top of the ball. I want me, my bigfatazz and the club leaning down on the ball. DRIVING IT DOWN IN TO THE GROUND.
Bucket don't do sweep. But that's just me.
__________________
Aloha Mr. Hand
Behold my hands; reach hither thy hand
Last edited by 12 piece bucket : 01-27-2008 at 01:14 AM.
D . . . Are you watching the videos??? Boo is no way no how Horizontal Hinging??? It's closer to VERTICAL hinging than horizontal. That clubface is not pointing along the plane line . . . it's close to pointing at the sky. He does SWIVEL unlike Zach. Watch the close up of the club. The toe is very quiet.
Boo is Horizontal Hinging (watch the Clubface rotation through the Ball). You are seeing a clubface facing the sky at the Top of his Swing and have determined the cause to be Hinging. An easier explanation is at hand. Perhaps it is simply 10-2-D using 10-18-A.
He is not Swiveling. This will be difficult to understand. I’ll try to be clear. Boo rotates his Left Hand into Impact but does not trace the Plane Line. He does not Uncock and Roll on the same Planeline. He Uncocks on a Parallel line that is 6 inches inside the Planeline and Rolls TO the Planeline. His Pivot is Rolling the Clubface closed to the Planeline in the traditional sense and his Left Hand is Rolling the Clubface in the traditional sense. I don’t want to get into argument with the Master, however Hand Rolling and Swiveling are very different mechanical motions if you look at it from the Plane Lines Point of View. Perhaps this is one of the reasons he appears to have such a Straight Line Delivery. He does have a Straight Line Delivery but not to the baseline of the inclinde Plane. He is Slapping at the ball with his Left Hand.
Both use compensations which are varying mixtures of component variations and both break the LAWS to some degree and both have some inefficiency. Both are exceptional athletes. Both have dug their swings out of the ground through countless hours of exaustive labor. Both have found their way. Hats off.
And the grip awful? So what. Homer said you could do anything you want. You ask Boo to change his grip and he goes back to the state fair to get knocked out by another orangutan.
Forget about accumlators and analysis and all that junk for a second . . .
So What? He Grips the Club that way for a reason. A mistake to correct a mistake.
Step out of your yellow box. We CAN do the analysis on these swings.
Is that the “Proverbial We”?
There are reasons why these swings work. Take Sergio, Zach and Boo as examples. Each one has a turned left hand. Two have major amounts of shaft lean. Two have lots of axis tilt and are more slidy than rotational. One has a major shift and turns HARD. One stays on the turned shoulder plane. The other two use the elbow plane. All these components blend. One thing they have in common is the DON'T horizontal hinge.
My Exact words were: "Videos and Pictures are better applied to discussions on component variations. Conclusions, however, are based on what Components our eyes can capture and the causative relationships our brains deduct from these."
WATCH HOW THE CLUB MOVES IN SPACE COMPARITIVELY . . . The difference is HUGE!!!! One is night the other is day . . . one is black the other is white. You are seeing extreme ends of the spectrum here. Steep vs. Flat. High vs. Low. Circle vs. Line.
If a car is travelling down a steep hill at 100 MPH, do you assume the Driver is pushing on the Gas Pedal? Do you assume he wants to? Could his Brakes have failed? What information is at hand to surmise conclusions?
I mean I know I'm marginally retarded and all that . . . these golf swings are on the extreme edges and there's a lot to be learned here. You have to step out of the chapter and verse. It's in the book but it requires a bit of reading between the lines.
The way these clubs move are as different as night and day. One clubhead skims the ground the other clubhead falls out of the sky.
Yes. But observation is not analysis. Analysis’ are not conclusions. Conclusions are not Recommendations.
You can make it happen with your clubhead close to the ground as it approaches the ball . . . but my choice is to have it falling out of the sky down on top of the ball. I want my whole primary lever assembly and my whole body brought to bear right down on top of the ball. I want me, my bigfatazz and the club leaning down on the ball. DRIVING IT DOWN IN TO THE GROUND.
I understand how you feel about it. But Feel and Mechanics are only brothers. Exaggerating one Component will not correct or obviate the others.
Bucket don't do sweep. But that's just me.
Daryl don’t do sweep too.
When you and I watch a video or view a picture we see the same things. You see a Clubface facing the sky and so do I. You see a Right Wrist Flattening after Impact as I do. We don’t have a problem with observation. We are both armchair analyzing. You and I are not studying each of their components and uncovering what component variations are chosen. Then we are not substituting variations or using other means to uncover their effect. We aren’t deducing conclusions and we aren’t presenting recommendations. We are viewing their swings and chastising or praising them. It’s fun sometimes, I admit, however it doesn’t add to our knowledge. We have a lanquage ala Homer Kelley and we are able to describe geometry and other things to eachother. But vocabulary alone isn't knowledge.
Analysis is very hard work. Thats why we have so many commentators. The word "Commentator" comes from the Yankee word - Common - and the Southern word - Tater. Get it? They are "Potato Heads". lol
If I got a Dime everytime a Pro came up short on his approach and the Commentator said "that wasn't a mishit, that was a gust of wind" I'd be rich. They get paid to explain it that way. In the world of TV and Golf Rags, It's a carnival. And we are aware of that. I'd much rather watch a tournament in person.
If I am understanding Yoda's video's on hinge action, Boo does have rhythm but it is most certainly not horizontal hinging rhythm.
__________________
"In my experience, if you stay with the essentials you WILL build a repeatable swing undoubtedly. If you can master the Imperatives you have a champion" (Vikram).
The reason you can't sustain the lag is because you are so eager to make the club move fast (a reaction to the intent of "hitting it far"). So on a full shot you throw it away too early, which doesn't happen for your short chip. (bts)
If I am understanding Yoda's video's on hinge action, Boo does have rhythm but it is most certainly not horizontal hinging rhythm.
In the video footage of Boo's swing from the link in post #1 of this thread, Boo is clearly Sequencing his release. He uses a lot of #3 accumulator which streches out his Horizontal Hinge. Because his #3 accumulator roll is 3 feet long, the Horizontal hinge may be difficult to observe. In addition to watching his Sequenced Release, please notice that at impact to impact separation that there is no apparent Clubface Layback.
In the video footage of Boo's swing from the link in post #1 of this thread, Boo is clearly Sequencing his release. He uses a lot of #3 accumulator which streches out his Horizontal Hinge. Because his #3 accumulator roll is 3 feet long, the Horizontal hinge may be difficult to observe. In addition to watching his Sequenced Release, please notice that at impact to impact separation that there is no apparent Clubface Layback.
D . . . did you watch the video to the very end??? When the zoom in on the club . .. it is CLEARLY laying back and NOT pointing along the plane line . . . according to Homer's definition we are seing ANGLED HINGING . . .
Per 2-G . . .
With Horizontal Hinging, the toe of the Club will point along the Plane Line. With Angled Hinging, about 45 degrees across the Plane Line. With Vertical Hinging, about 90 degrees across the Plane Line with the Clubface looking Squarely at the sky
That grip is turned . . . you are again seeing the clubface being thrown at the ball by definition . . . and angled hinging.
Can a Golfer change the Size of the "Endless Belt Effect" Pulley?
Homer Kelley would say ABSOLUTELY . . .
2-K 7th Edition . . .
Another very important element in the generation of Angular Motion is the Endless Belt Effect (Sketch 2-K #6) which is the Physics of the Delivery Paths (7-23). During the straight line portion of the motion (Line Delivery Path) Linear Motion give the Belt and the Clubhead identical MPH speed. When the Belt starts around the Pulley (Release) its MPH does not change (Constant Hand Speed) but the Clubhead goes into an Angular Motion and its Surface Speed becomes proportional to: 1). its Radius, 2). Belt Speed and 3). Pulley diameter. Increasing the diameter and/or the Belt Speed increases Clubhead MPH and vice versa. The Circle Delivery Path is just one big Pulley - no Belt, no Linear Motion and therefore constant Hand Speed and Clubhead Speed (RPM) but different MPH due to different Surface Speeds. It must all comply with 7-23 - which is the Geometry of the Endless Belt Action.
AND PER 6-E-2 . . . You can change the diameter by simply chaning your Aiming Point . . .
difference in travel distance per degree of Angular Motion because Impact always occurs during the "Pulley" portion of the Endless Belt travel (sketch 2-K #6) regardless of the direction of its Straight Line travel between pulleys (or of the Thrust during the Circle Path per 7-23) because both of those lines represent the True Delivery Paths and move - physically - directly at the point on the Ball through which the Angle of Approach passes even with Aiming Point procedures because The Machine delivers the #3 Pressure Point to Impact Fix Hand Location AT IMPACT with all Delivery Paths, Delivery Lines, Pulley Sizes, etc. because its structure is designed to do just that, hence the importance of a sturdy structure around the Endless Belt machinery. That is what makes the Aiming Point procedure possible at all
Change your aiming point . . . move your hand in a straight line . . .move them in a circle . . .ALL CHANGE PULLEY DIAMETER.
Change your aiming point . . . move your hand in a straight line . . .move them in a circle . . .ALL CHANGE PULLEY DIAMETER.
You Tricked me. We were only referring to changing the Pulley Size using a Straight Line Delivery Path. All of the pictures, illustrations, graphic representations always show two pulleys because we are talking about straight line delivery paths. If I wanted Circle Path Delivery I would show one big Pulley.
AIMING POINT doesn't change the pulley Size, it only relocates the pulley.
HMM? Hmm? Can you change the Pulley Size in a Circle Path Deivery?
You Tricked me. We were only referring to changing the Pulley Size using a Straight Line Delivery Path. All of the pictures, illustrations, graphic representations always show two pulleys because we are talking about straight line delivery paths. If I wanted Circle Path Delivery I would show one big Pulley.
AIMING POINT doesn't change the pulley Size, it only relocates the pulley.
HMM? Hmm? Can you change the Pulley Size in a Circle Path Deivery?
Dude that was the WHOLE POINT of putting up the two swings . . . Boo = straight line small pulley . . . Zach = Big ole circle . . .
Again watch the clubs . . . . the pictures tell the story.
Hybrid Mode
